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I am contacted by a couple of angry Norseman Gold (LSE:NGL) shareholders asking if they can sue the company following today’s appalling news. It is bad, there is no getting away from it but the story is not played out in full. So, firstly READ THE NEWS and why this does not mean that Norseman is bust HERE – it is not game over as some seem to think.
Secondly while I am sure that managers have taken a fair old wedge as “executive compensation” they have also invested vast amounts personally. This is not a pump and dump. Their interests are aligned with yours.
Thirdly, while Norseman still has a fair chance of restoring some value do you really think launching a (costly) case will help? If you want to fight, wait until the situation is clearer.
Fourthly if Norseman does go down whom would you sue and with what will you get paid?
Fifthly, it is clear that at Norseman things change quickly. Every week there is a different reason why they fucked up on hitting production targets. And so to say “we were told it was on track they lied” is almost certainly incorrect/impossible to prove. The company could have been on track one day but the next day it rained heavily/the ball mill broke/ a pit closed for H&S reasons/add in any of the other excuses Norseman has served up over the years.
So I doubt anyone has a case they can prove. It will cost an arm and a leg. There is no-one to sue if it does all go tits up and distracting management now is not going to help anyway. Equities are risky investments you can lose all. You can also double your money in a few weeks (see HERE). Ultimately we have to take responsibility for our own losses just as we can take credit for our own gains. Sorry to sound harsh but that is life.
The person who really should be sued is you Tom for consistently recommending this as a buy. Yet more evidence of what a useless tipster you are.
Sadly you don’t seem to have learned and I see you are still tipping rubbish stocks to the unwary.
Hey Guys,
I have recently started following Tom, not very thoroughly but read most of his articles here at ADVFN, and read some of the comments and I find some or should I say more people criticising his tips.
He gives tips, and you can find numerous tips online and in magazines, now if it would have been that easy to make money (just follow the tips) then believe me every person in this world would be doing that and would be rich, the point here is you find tips everywhere but not every tips can be a success and if it will then the tipster will be a multi millionaire and won’t be giving tips and would be minting money for himself.
I find Tom’s tips are like his opinion and gives information about a company and what he thinks may happen, it may happen and may not happen.
There is a lot to say….but I will sum up, read the tips apply your own brain, take responsibility of your own decisions and stop accusing him.
I heard of Norseman Gold and after reading Tom’s article I invested, so now the company in total dole drums, I don’t feel slightly bitter or angry towards Tom or accuse him.
I don’t think there is even a need for him even to apologise.
Some facts about Norseman Gold tip : after his recommendation in July 2009 @ 37, sp reached 47.25 on 18 Sept, 2009 about 27.7% return, went upto 50.83 on 9 Oct 2009 giving 37.37% return.
(SP Source: Google Finance, I hope my calculations are correct)
Regards
Pankaj
What I want to ask here and in this case is that Norseman Gold still have 3.4 million ounces of gold at an average grade of 4.7g/t (which is very good, it is very hard to find such quality of ore), if we value this by mere $20 after discounting debts and everything it still means $60.8 million, how can or is there a way shareholders can get that or fight for that.
I think companies looking for takeover cannot over look this, I am not sure of the figure but I had read somewhere that takovers in gold companies are in the range of $50-$100/ounces.
Your comments Tom.
Pankaj
I agree that people must make , and take responsibility for , their own decisions. However people like Tom claim to be top/expert tipsters. Indeed Tom has encouraged people to invest in the funds he ran and to subscribe to his website. He therefore must take some responsibility for the poor advice he gave which has resulted in so many people losing money. There is a great deal of anger about his performance and underlying arrogance – have a look at the Rivington St thread on ADVFN.
Gordon
As I see it your argument is that when I get it right I am doing my job as an “expert” but when I get it wrong it is all my fault & I should be slated. No upside for me just downside.
Over 12 years and 230 odd tips my average gain per tip is c40% over an average c36 months. So on balance I get it right far more often than I get it wrong but that counts for nothing. It is just the losers that count.
Surely you can see that your thesis does not stand up?
Performance – well there are the stats.
Arrogance? I am sorry if you or others feel that way. As it happens duff tips hurt me badly. Not just becuase they inspire criticism but becuase I am cross with myself at an intellectual level. A lot of other “experts” got NGL wrong but that is no comfort to me at all.
I have apologised for this one & elsewhere for t1ps that underperform publically. What more can I say?
I am sorry that folks lost money on this tip. Please spell it out: What do you want me to say? A public mea culpa on every duff tip? IF I do that will you allow me to crow on every good one? History suggests there would be more crowing than mea culpas but is that a fair deal?
You do seem to spend a lot of time on the internet having a go at me. I tell you what, as you have so much spare time why not pop into Real Man Pizza and I shall offer you a pizza on the house and we can chat about what is irking you so much. The offer is there if you want a constructive dialogue.
Over to you mate…
Best wishes
Tom
I lost several thousand on this tip. Whose fault is that?
At the risk of stating the obvious it’s my money I’m investing and my responsibility to get it right using all the information I can find. Tipsters’ responsibility is to get the facts right and to express their opinions honestly. That’s it! If you’re angry about any tipsters performance don’t follow their tips, don’t moan about it!
That is obvious isn’t it?
Exactly, well said Mark, I invest, I follow tips, I win & I lose but what is there to blame the tipster.
Gordon : you said “Tom has encouraged people to invest in the funds he ran and to subscribe to his website.”
Tom is doing his job, he never went to you personally and made you invest, did he ?
There are salesman who insist you to take credit cards, loans, etc. do you always take ?
Also again I would mention from Norseman Gold tip people should have made money rather losing.
Pankaj
“Also again I would mention from Norseman Gold tip people should have made money rather losing”.
That will take some explaining.lol
Tom
“So on balance I get it right far more often than I get it wrong but that counts for nothing. It is just the losers that count.”
Not strictly true. As you rightly so often say risers can leap 1000% but losers can only fall 100%. Therefore you could make 12 tips, two of which jump say 1000% but 10 go bust losing 100% on each. Your average gain over those 12 stocks would still look impressive but it is obvious that that you were not getting it right far more often then getting it wrong. Not rocket science.
Pankaj has already explained it in his first post, Bob. He’s saying that if you’d sold at the right time you’d have made money. You did this with JJB I seem to remember, you sold on the one single day you could have realised a profit.
…and Tom has covered your other point in his post Bob. He’s saying he gets it right more often than wrong and he’s saying his tips have made decent gains overall. Both.
Your accusations don’t stand up to any scrutiny, Bob and Gordon and others, can’t you raise the bar a bit?
Let me explain once more :
Tom’s Tip : July 2009 sp 37
Sept 2009 sp 47.25
Oct 2009 sp 50.83
Nov 2009 sp 69.87
If someone still can’t make money I suggest to stop investing in stock market.
Q – I lost several thousand on this tip. Whose fault is that?
A – Your fault
Tom Winnifrith: good tips but bad timing on how to close out profits. If he sold shares in Rivlington St at their peak I’m sure he wouldn’t be here on ADVFN talking to us low-lifes – rather be on paradise island in Barbados!
And yes Mark – shares can change a person’s future outlook in life (ask Tom), in the stock market, you lose and you lose, so get over it, and anyway Tom has lost a lot more than you if that consoles you in any way.
James K, you didn’t read my post properly: “At the risk of stating the obvious it’s my money I’m investing and my responsibility to get it right…”.
Do try to get a grip.
…and as to your second post Mr K. Thanks for the advice, I’ll add it to everything else since I became a full time investor many years ago.
And thanks for informing me that Tom has lost a lot more than me. Neither Tom nor I know that.
Try the contrarian view he’s done wonders for Centamin CEY since he slagged it off, it’s up nearly 50%.
Steve
Or put another way, I also tipped CEY at 8p and told punters to sell at 137 a gain of er… 1610%
Thanks for bringing this one up
Best wishes
Tom
I bought CEY at 12.1p and sold at 191p thanks to your tip, so I think you are the dogs gonads. Unfortunately I bought back to early prior to the arab spring so am sitting a hefty loss. I think you are too pessimistic about Egypt and the new regime, early signs are that they will be as pro west as before. As for CEY itself it’s still making loads of dosh, funding expansion from that dosh to make even more dosh, what’s to dislike?
What do you think of AMER. Looks to me to be on the verge of loads a money.
What I want to ask here and in this case is that Norseman Gold still have 3.4 million ounces of gold at an average grade of 4.7g/t (which is very good, it is very hard to find such quality of ore), if we value this by mere $20 after discounting debts and everything it still means $60.8 million, how can or is there a way shareholders can get that or fight for that.
I think companies looking for takeover cannot over look this, I am not sure of the figure but I had read somewhere that takovers in gold companies are in the range of $50-$100/ounces.
Your comments Tom.
Randgold RRS are rumoured to be on the look out for more assets, but I doubt they would be interested this mine with its problematic history. The geography is probably wrong as well.